This meme is just an excuse to do some Wesley flailing

[semele]

This post contains A Song of Ice and Fire books spoilers.

Comment to this post, and I will list five things I associate with you. They might make sense or they might be totally random. Then post that list, with your commentary, to your LJ (or just add a reply back to me). Other people (including me) can get lists from you, and the meme merrily perpetuates itself.

So, ever_neutral gave me:


01. non-functional Damon/Elena

I AM GOING TO BE BRIEF ABOUT IT. Mostly because I'm in the middle of writing a D/E meta. Besides, a brief look at my journal should be enough for you to tell that lately I've became this crazy shipper person.

This ship is my current obsession, mostly because it just begs for future!fics in which both Damon and Elena are gloriously fucked up. So I love Damon/Elena as a ship that is based on very casual, mundane disappointments, on disillusionment and on a weird yet real friendship. I indulge in Damon's inclinations towards drama and in Elena's worst tendencies. Those two can be truly romantic, and they can do it in the most creepy way.

02. Wesley Wyndam-Pryce!

I need Wesley like I need oxygen ;). What I love about him the most is the LOGIC with which he was written: he is this character who seems to have changed every aspect of himself, but in fact he didn't. Even the dark, broken Wesley who helps Illyria still has some traces of the old, silly, know-it-all Wesley. He can make the hardest choices without blinking, and it doesn't matter if it is handing Faith to the Council, stealing Connor or destroying Vail's memory spell. Wesley always makes the hard choice. He doesn't hesitate, he doesn't wait for someone to decide for him, he just does it, and then he bears the consequences.

Wesley is tragic, but he is also a bit pathetic, he would make a fool of himself or help Illyria just because she looks like Fred. He speaks dozens of languages, and yet he still can't express himself. He had his throat cut, and his friends abandoned him, and then he had this memory taken away from him. He fell in love with Fred, because she was this sweet, innocent person he would've loved before he was broken, than he discovered some dark things about her and he fell in love with who she really was, then it was taken away form him, and Wesley fell in love with the Ideal Fred again. He lost her before he rediscovered the truth, and now (I live in the AU world in which Wesley is alive, and I have to think very hard to remember that it is actually le_mru's fic, not canon) he is left with the blue King-God who doesn't know a thing about humans. And Wesley makes himself a tool, he uses his most private experiences in order to teach Illyria about the world.

He was Faith's worst Watcher. He was her best Watcher. He will never forgive her, but it's ok, because she should never forgive him either. Faith was the one who started making Wesley who he is right now. Lilah really knew him, and it was the worst thing about her. Wesley has wretched luck when it comes to women. Wesley has the best luck when it comes to women. Wesley is the smartest guy I've ever seen. Wesley doesn't know how the fuck could he function now.

Besides... All the books, swords, smart speeches, variety of shirts, ultimate pain - WESLEY, HOW SO HOT??? I seem to recall a post in which we were already considering this problem.

03. Jon/Robb

YOU KNOW NOTHING, JON SNOW! Ok, that's painfully off-topic, but I had to ;).

I actually don't ship it very hard. But I blame mlekopijca for the fact that I ship it at all (well, most of my slash pairings started from the fact that she was nagging me...). Jon wanted to run away from the Wall just to be with his brother. Robb stood up to his mother to make his brother his heir. Jon should be the king, and Robb should be his Warden of the North. Martin did it wrong, and someone should fix this mistake RIGH NOW!

04. fic-writing

I'm a compulsive fic writer. I've been doing it for over six years now (how did it happen? o_O), and it grew to be a form of self-expression for me. It's more than just fun, I actually get all "artistic" about writing, feelings exposed and so on. Well, ok, not always. Sometimes. And sometimes it's just fun. But I can't imagine myself not writing. I can have breaks, sometimes long breaks, but I come back eventually. I get enthusiastic about writing. I get emotional about writing. I get geeky about writing. I want to try new things and be challenged. I talk about writing. As I've said - compulsive writer :).

05. teaching

Yes, I do it ;). I've been giving private lessons for over five years now. I mostly teach English, occasionally History (that's because far more people want to learn English). I mostly teach young children, like, 10-12 years old, but my History students all were in their final year of high school :). I have many funny/scary stories starting with "Yesterday my student told me...", but I'm not telling any of them in an unlocked post ;).

Comments

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

I didn't start watching Buffy until season 6 (I don't even know what I was doing until then...WHY DIDN'T I WATCH MORE TV???), so I immediately fell in love with the glorious dysfunction that was Buffy/Spike. And I always, always go for the alterna-ship anyway, so I was doomed from the start. I do wonder if I would have liked Angel more if I'd met him first.

WESLEY + FACIAL HAIR = OTP. Seriously, that man and the stubble? HOW SO HOT.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Haha, I think shipping Buffy/Angel was ALL about being 13. :p Sometimes I'm relieved that I was already into my 20s when Twilight got really big or my 12-year-old self would have been all over Edward/Bella. SHAAAAAAAME. D:

Weirdly even though I will always be distantly fond of Buffy/Angel (THEY WERE MY FIRST OTP), I get offended whenever people compare Stefan to Angel? I mean, first of all, Stefan is WAY more interesting and SECOND OF ALL, he broods ways less. So that needs to not happen anymore.

/tangent

WESLEY + FACIAL HAIR = OTP. Seriously, that man and the stubble? HOW SO HOT.</i? RIGHT?! It was suddenly like he woke up a new person. Stubble can be a risky investment when you're a man, but sometimes it REALLY pays off.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Fandom secrets: I used to closet-ship Buffy/Angel when I was 22 XD. God, it speaks VOLUMES about my mental state back then... I totally wanted to believe in Big Damn Epic Love.

Don't throw shot glasses in my general direction, but I think early s1 Stefan is a bit like Angel ;). Although he gets over it soon, and then he is SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING. Right now I love Stefan to bits, and I get all defensive when people say nasty things about him. *pets Stefan and his stolen coffins*

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Buffy sending Angel to hell is still one of the most tragic things to have ever happened in my life. I CRY EVERY TIME I RE-WATCH. :|

Only Damon throws shot glasses around here. And lol, early days Stefan. YOU HAVE A POINT THERE. I suspect that TVD felt like they had to copycat all the main vampire tropes to get themselves off the ground? But once the show found its own unique voice, Stefan got a whole lot more interesting.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

I get offended too. Well, not OFFENDED, just O_o. They have completely different personalities. I also balk at the Damon = Spike comparison. I appreciate both characters, but there is no danger of getting the two confused.

In defence of Buffy/Angel: I mean, I don't think that ship is only good for nostalgic appeal? They do have one of the best narratives in all of Jossverse. And season two is probably one of the best deconstructions of romantic tropes I've seen in fiction. I have a huge academic interest in the pairing, though I don't necessarily ship them.

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

Season 2 Buffy and Angel is the BEST. Because they're not Epic Love of Epicness (THE WORST, JUST, STOP IT), they're just so messed up and it's amazing. My problem is that Joss just erased everything by making it Angelus instead of Angel. I just could never buy that they were two separate people - Angelus was a part of Angel, so every time they tried to make a clear distinction, I wanted to throw things at my TV.

I'm also not so much a fan of the Damon-Spike comparison. I LOVED Spike like crazy - like, serious fangirl obsession of my teenage years. But Damon would be furious if he knew he was being compared to Spike. Spike becomes something of a lapdog for a while, and it worked then, but I thought the absolute best thing about Disturbing Behavior was Damon saying he was not going to do that. He was going to be terrible because he liked being terrible, and that was that. NEVER CHANGE, MY HORRIBLE SALVATORE. ♥

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Angelus is my problem in general, and I choose to interpret it as Angel deluding himself. I also choose to think that Spike with a soul can see right through this act and calls Angel out on it.

I guess the main difference is that Buffyverse is an epic story about heroes who save the world a lot, while TVD is about a bunch of kids who keep finding themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, constantly stepping into things bigger that themselves. Buffy is the chosen one and she has the mission. Elena wants all this crap to be over, so that she can resume her normal life. Those two stories require different rhetorics, and different rhetorics require different characters. So Damon and Spike are a little bit similar (fool for love, an ultimate performer), but you are right, Spike would never act out the way Damon acted out in Disturbing Behavior. He would never close Katherine/Drusilla in the tomb in Masquarade. He would never feed Elena/Buffy his blood, because, hell, vampirism in Buffyverse is so different from vampirism in TVD! No one ever expected Buffy to turn into a vampire, while with Elena it's a valid question. The list of differences can go ad infinitum. There are some very basic similarities that work on a very general level, but once you get into it? You get two different shows that just belong to the same genre.

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

I like what you say, my friend. Buffy was on such a grand scale, and TVD takes place in a little town in Virginia. I think it works. I loved all the saving of the world on Buffy, but now I'm really into the oddly domestic feel of vampires and possible apocalypse-creating species. In a way, Elena and Buffy shouldn't really be compared at all. Elena isn't much of a Chosen One - she's the doppleganger, but she doesn't get any powers from that whatsoever. It isn't her responsibility to save the world - in fact, the world is best served if she just stays out of things. My head is trying to match up all the Buffy and TVD characters now, and it's too much for my tired brain. But someday.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

I DO NOT BUY THE ANGEL/ANGELUS CRAP AT ALL. I'm also not entirely convinced we're supposed to. But it does make Buffy fandom something of a nightmare sometimes. The Angel v.s. Spike hypocrisy, namely. And how Spike and Buffy/Spike fans get shit thrown at us for being ~rape apologists~ or whatever the fuck when Angel did EVEN WORSE THINGS WITHOUT A SOUL TOO. (And now this crap is happenin' all over again in TVD fandom and I just. cannot. even.)

I LOVE BOTH DAMON AND SPIKE TOO. Favourites. But total word that Damon would take ~offence, lol. The key distinction between the two is that Damon does not sign up to the "bad boy will be saved by the love of a good woman" shtick at all (whereas it took 6 seasons for Spike to snap out of that type of thinking).

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

And now this crap is happenin' all over again in TVD fandom and I just. cannot. even.

Tell me about it :(. The trouble is that there are Damon fans who actually are rape apologists, and there are people who enjoy they high moral ground so much they refuse to notice that there are other Damon fans too... Huh, I'm being bitter, aren't I?

But total word that Damon would take ~offence

Oh, come on, they both would!!! Spike is the unique snowflake, and he doesn't want to be compared to anyone, he is ONE OF THE KIND! And especially he is NOT like some nancy boy who drinks blood from blood bags and takes part in charity events! XD

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I could write novels about the stupidity of the Angel/Angelus stuff. Like, Lord of the Rings length novels.

I think we are supposed to buy into it, unfortunately. As much as I think Joss Whedon is a total genius, he has these weird lapses in logic that have always driven me insane. There are just a few characters that are above any censure, and some that get punished for absolutely everything. I have a lot of pent-up Buffy aggression, and I probably shouldn't get into it...(BUT OMG THE FREAKING SPIKE WITHOUT A SOUL VS ANGEL WITHOUT A SOUL THING MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE WHAT).

Damon and Spike are both phenomenal, but in their own ways. They both were totally silly love-sick fools as humans. The only real difference between them is that Spike got to keep the girl for a century, while Damon never had her (and had to share her with his brother, which, trauma he hates sharing Stefan). So Spike kind of believes in happily ever after with love because he sort of had that, while Damon spent a century getting super bitter and jaded because he was miserable and alone. My poor boy. (But I'm glad for it, because I love him in all his fucked up glory).

Side note: do you ever find yourself thinking, hey, Damon and Stefan are older than Spike. Weird. THIS IS HOW MY MIND WORKS NOW.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Huh, I've never looked at BtVS s2 from that perspective, possible because I don't watch it that often, and when I do, I keep obsessing about Spike XD. I guess I tend to go all "blah" on Buffy/Angel because of all the Only True Epic Love crap that was pulled later on.

I shall pay attention the next time I watch it :).

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

I wonder how many TVD people were once Buffy people - I feel like we're always making comparisons because Buffy is how we learned to fangirl about vampires. But I will defend Stefan to the death if anyone tries to make him into Angel. I don't HATE Angel, per se, but what I couldn't stand was how he got away with everything ever cause he could always say "Oh, it was Angelus, not me." I was lowkey terrified that TVD would do that with Stefan and the switch, but so far so good. Elena seems a lot more aware than Buffy did about the realities of vampires, so that's helping. This is getting more analytical than I intended...

Basically, I LOVE STEFAN MUCH MORE THAN I LOVED ANGEL. He's much more interesting. And he has that gorgeous twisty brother relationship that feeds my soul, so that certainly helps.

And lastly, stubble CAN be risky, but Wesley Wyndam-Price's face is a masterclass on how to do stubble right.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

I wonder how many TVD people were once Buffy people

My money would be on MANY. Like, whenever I read some discussions and Buffy comes up, most people are familiar with Buffyverse. Hey, let's have a poll!

I can't escape comparisons, because I have an impression that in the beginning of TVD we are actually supposed to make them? On the other hand, TVD quickly went in a completely different direction, so the comparisons got stuck in my head, but they're not working any more. So I just use them when I write crack!fic / poke fun. I love Stefan vs Angel, Damon vs Spike etc, but in the ultimately silly context. I love crossover fics in which Spike, Damon and Eric from True Blood bond over having a misfortune of having Good Vampires in their lives ;). So no, I don't think Stefan is like Angel, and I like Stefan much more than I like Angel, but jokes about forehead brooding? Still funny in some contexts ;).

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

I'm at the point where I think that everyone in any fandom ever watched Buffy. It's just something we internet people all did. (I don't know how to do a poll...but I like the idea!)

Comparisons are absolutely inescapable, especially in a genre show. I find myself comparing vampire types all the time (this is what my life has come to). And the Stefan/Angel and Damon/Spike parallels are natural and even apt to a point, but I like my vampires unique, thank you very much. But crack!fic where vampires from different universes meet and bond is THE BEST. I would read your Spike-Damon--Eric fic. And I would love it.

(I also have a slight head!canon where Damon makes jokes about Stefan being Angel all the time - to everyone, including Stefan. Because it is canon that Damon watches Buffy. Just like us. DAMON AND HIS LIVEJOURNAL, THEY'RE BACK. I bet he had a whole post about how much Stefan is like Angel. Damon is an internet person, just like us.)

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

I'll make the poll today :).

I like your head!canon! Your head!canon is my head!canon! Damon totally does all those things, because Damon is one of us, ha!

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

I can never fully comprehend the hottness of Wesley. It's just... there. #I blame Wesley for my high expectations of men

(I don't even know what I was doing until then...WHY DIDN'T I WATCH MORE TV???

You had a life. We all did, once.

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

You had a life. We all did, once.

*blinks* No... not... sure I ever really had one of those?

Sometimes I think of my whole life as a series of fandoms. What was I doing when I was 17? OH RIGHT I WAS GETTING OUT OF THE BUFFYVERSE AND INTO HARRY POTTER.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Ok, I got into fandom when I was 18, so I remember having a life ;). Hell, I remember not having internet!

Harry Potter was my first fandom! And I was so embarassed, because OMG, I was 18 and started writing Harry Potter fanfiction! GROWN-UPS DON'T DO THAT! Yeah, and now I'm going to translate some Buffy subtitles as a homework, and then bring it to class and discuss with the whole group. Oh well.

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I think of my whole life as a series of fandoms.

WORD. I can pretty much track my life from age 9-22 by which fandoms I was happily obsessing over. There were a few lulls here and there where I was largely fandomless...those were dark times.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

I wish I started fangirling earlier :(. I can go from more or less from 11 to 18 by tracing all the books we were obsessing over with my best friends (we were those weird kids who used to read some 19th century classics in their early teens ;) ), and then fandoms from 18 to 24. I was always a bookish person, not that much into movies, and I had to be convinced that TV shows are awesome ;).

Just out of curiosity - what were your fandoms?

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how much I can say I was involved in each fandom - I've only written fanfic for three fandoms, and I've only talked to other people for two. But the fandoms I've read for and been ridiculously obsessed with are (in order):

Harry Potter
Buffy (and a little bit of Angel, but seriously, mostly about Wesley)
Veronica Mars
Skins
TVD

Oddly enough, there are a few shows I love just as much, but I didn't need fandom for them (things like Lost - never got into fandom, though I was pretty obsessed with the show). There's just a certain type of show that makes me want to flail on the internet. I don't tend to get into books fandoms (Harry Potter being the obvious exception), though once I catch up on Game of Thrones I'm pretty sure I might break pattern.

So, what were/are your main fandoms?

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

Oh, and those weird kids who read 19th century classics? My childhood, thank you very much. My friends still get mad at me because I spend all my time reading Austen and Dickens and Bronte and they can't get me to read more modern things (I will, I just...need to get through my reading list.).

[dante-kent.livejournal.com]

A life? .......what's that?

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Mostly a theoretical concept.