semele: ([tvd] Damon Stefan civil war)
[personal profile] semele
I spam. I'm a spamming person. I'm also a person who really wants to do Day 5 tommorow, so here I go with Day 4. I'm not in the best shape today, so what I've written is probably a bit chaotic; it might also be murdering numerous rules of English language.



Day 4 - Your least favorite guest-star

I honestly couldn't decide, because I don't have a minor character I would actually hate. But then I decided I should write about Giuseppe Salvatore, and I can even come up with two reasons to do so:

1. He killed his children in cold blood, just because they shamed him. Even a Damon fan can have a high moral ground here...

2. I can speculate the hell out of him!

Mostly I see Giuseppe as this stern, serious man with, OMG, moral code, and his greatest fault is that he believes that rules are more important than people. Basically, the guy thinks that he's Brutus (for those who aren't history geeks: apart from the Brutus who betrayed Ceasar, there was another Brutus who lived over 400 years before the well-known one; he played a major part in establishing the Roman Republic, and when his sons were discovered to be plotting to bring back the monarchy, Brutus had them both executed; this legend was quite popular in classicism), and that it's so very noble of him. On the other hand, we see so little of his relationships with his sons that it's a wild speculation zone for me. I have a theory. Do you?

In my head!canon Giuseppe used to spend a lot of time with his children; he would teach them himself (well, obviously not as their only teacher, but I bet he kept an eye on everything), talk to them, suggest books for them to read, and generaly bring them up according to stoic ideals. I don't see him as being in a permanent conflict with Damon; as a matter of fact, I think that what we see in flashback is them arguing over Damon's war choices. Before the war the Salvatore house was probably quite peaceful; of course Giuseppe must've had a problem with Damon's impulsiveness, and it generated some tension, but I'm far from projecting their conflict from 1864 on their entire life. Generally, I'm taking Katherine's word on Damon being sweet and innocent. It makes sense. When they were young, it was Stefan who was better at putting on masks and lying to his father in order to appease him; Damon was just a good boy who wore his heart on his sleeve, and Giuseppe didn't like it, because Damon was too emotional for him. I bet Stefan used to do forbidden things in secret, raid his father's stash of alcohol or seduce girls from time to time, and Giuseppe never found out.

To sum up: I see Giuseppe Salvatore as a father whose love was always conditional; who gave his children lots of time and attention, but he also tried to shape them to be just like him, and failed miserably. Damon turned out to be far too impulsive for his father's taste, Stefan never showed Giuseppe anything but a facade of a good boy.


I wanted to mention Once Upon a Time as well, because I'm really enjoying this show, but I'm far too sleepy now to write something even remotely intelligent, so I'd better do it tommorow.

Date: 2011-11-09 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
1. HAHAHAHA true. Since Damon was not actually a dick back then, I feel pretty justified in looking down on Giuseppe.

2. Ooh, I wonder if the Brutus similarity is intentional? Uh, probably not, but it's an interesting thought. :)

I'm… not sure I agree with your view of the brothers' back then? I mean, Stefan has a huge inferiority complex re: Damon? It doesn't make sense for Stefan to be so in awe of his brother if he's the one who got away with doing things like raiding his father's alcohol stash, etc. And I can buy that Damon was "sweet and innocent" and too emotional, but I can't believe he was THAT good of a boy. *g* Like, the way they respond to Katherine--Stefan is overcome with shyness, and Damon's the one who declares that she wants to be chased. And Stefan wishes he were the ~fearless one. IDK, that's just how I see it.

Date: 2011-11-09 06:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
I think that the Brutus parallel may actually be intentional, because the similarities are just huge: the father takes part in establishing some sort of order, his two sons secretely plot to destroy that order, and then he sentences them to death. So it's either an intentional parallel, or Giuseppe is just written as a stereotypical 19th century gentleman who heard too many heroic stories when he was a boy.

When did Stefan wish that he was the fearless one?

Hmmm, I see your point. My view is somehow based on me refusing to accept fanon in which human!Damon was just as hedonistic as vapire!Damon. I simply attempted to twist the pattern a bit, because it made more sense that Damon was "the good brother". But you made me think that maybe this "good / bad brother thing" might be more complicated. The boys are just both ambigious, Damon is sweet and innocent, but he is also vivid, and fun to be around, and he has a bit of a temper. Stefan is not an "all or nothing" kind of guy (I mean, he is, but not as much as vampire!Stefan), but he tries to live up to his father's expectations and he feels guilty when he does something bad (which doesn't stop him from occasionally doing bad things).

Human!Stefan just can't be as good as he is shown in most fics, because a boy who was THAT good would've never slept with Katherine. So I imagine human!Stefan as a cute little hypocrite, playing good papa's boy and getting away with naughty things right under his father's nose. He wasn't an evil mastermind, and his "evil" would be, in fact, at least a bit childish. This way, it still demanded overcoming certain shyness and crossing many lines for him to sleep with Katherine (sadly, sleeping with a real lady who was his father's guest was a different thing that just seducing slave / poor girls). Giuseppe would still view Stefan as the good brother (because he seems so nice and moderate), and Damon as the bad brother (because he is so annoyingly impulsive), but, in fact, Damon is just a bit better than people usually write, and Stefan is just a bit worse. What do you think?

Date: 2011-11-09 07:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
When did Stefan wish that he was the fearless one?

Well, not anywhere specifically, but that's the subtext. In whatever relationship he's in, Stefan sees himself as weak and the other person as strong.

My view is somehow based on me refusing to accept fanon in which human!Damon was just as hedonistic as vapire!Damon.

Huh. Well, I definitely don't think Damon was anywhere near as vain and bratty as he is now, but the capacity was always there. I don't think either of them was "the bad brother" insofar as they were both GOOD, except... Damon's always been worse at following rules, so. Basically what you said: Giuseppe would still view Stefan as the good brother (because he seems so nice and moderate), and Damon as the bad brother (because he is so annoyingly impulsive), but, in fact, Damon is just a bit better than people usually write, and Stefan is just a bit worse. What do you think?

-- Now that I can agree with. Because yeah, locking the two characters in their "roles" is stupid and reductive. The real solution is that they're both a mix of good and bad. Damon was always "the bad one" in that he's always been bad at living up to people's expectations, and then after getting turned he threw everything to the wind and decided to fulfil that prophecy to the nth degree. :)

Human!Stefan just can't be as good as he is shown in most fics, because a boy who was THAT good would've never slept with Katherine. So I imagine human!Stefan as a cute little hypocrite, playing good papa's boy and getting away with naughty things right under his father's nose.

Yep, this. But I think a huge factor is wanting to be Damon. Stefan is naturally more reserved and less spontaneous than Damon--and it doesn't matter how "good" he is in people's eyes, he's always gonna envy Damon that "freedom" that Stefan perceives himself as lacking. I think that's what sleeping with Katherine was about. He definitely didn't assume that he'd be chosen over Damon.

Date: 2011-11-09 08:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, inferiority complex is definitely there. The problem with Damon is also that he is a very good liar, but only in some cases. He can fool people and so on, but he's far too impulsive to lie to people he cares about in order to avoid a difficult situation; he simply can't resist confrontation. So I guess Stefan used to lie to Giuseppe far more often, and Damon used to provoke more quarrels; Stefan would view it as Damon being brave and standing up to their father, when in fact it was just Damon being Twelve Forever.

Damon was always "the bad one" in that he's always been bad at living up to people's expectations, and then after getting turned he threw everything to the wind and decided to fulfil that prophecy to the nth degree. :)

They want me to be evil and unpredictable? I'LL SHOW THEM EVIL AND UNPREDICTABLE!!!

He definitely didn't assume that he'd be chosen over Damon.

It's hard to guess that a person who dares to do things like This is the girl that clearly wants to be chased would be so bottom when it comes to an actual relationship (especially when you're this person's little brother and you hero worship him). And it's even harder to guess that Katherine would find this splendid, funny, brave and heroic Damon boring.

Date: 2011-11-09 04:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pistacjowa.livejournal.com
O, wow, nie spodziewałam się takiego wyboru :) W ogóle już zapomniałam o tej postaci. Ale masz rację - nieprzyjemny typ.

Date: 2011-11-09 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
Ja tam w zasadzie wszystkich lubię, więc musiałam pokombinować.

Date: 2011-11-09 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pistacjowa.livejournal.com
Ja też musiałam sporo kombinować, żeby kogoś wybrać :)

Profile

semele: (Default)
semele

December 2015

S M T W T F S
  1 2345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Oct. 20th, 2017 12:11 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios