semele: ([tvd] Bracia Salvatore)
[personal profile] semele
This is a spontanous Salvatore meta. It combines the thoughts I had while re-watching season one, all sorts of random TVD observations and my flailing all over 3x08. Since I just HAVE TO do this, and I have very little time (unexpected family problems that will consume most of my free time at least till Tuesday), unfortunately I can't fiddle with pictures, but please, feel free to Salvatore pic/gifspam all over my persian rugs. It might take me some time to answer all the comments (including those I should've answered a couple of days ago), but I'll get to it eventually. Just bear with me, will you?

WARNING: spontanous meta is spontanous. It's not my most coherent, sensible or well-balanced post. It contains fangirling, flailing and rainbow vomiting. In this post I'm neither bashing nor supporting any ships. If you don't like the Salvatore boys, it might be a good idea for you to just skip this meta. I have no shame, and I probably never will.


It's All About Brothers
Or: Screw You, Epic Romance


When it comes to self-identification, Stefan and Damon Salvatore define themselves primary as brothers.

It's one of the most important (if not the most important) role they have in life. They refer to it even when it seems that it shouldn't apply; their built their identities around the concept of being brothers. Let me show you some quotes:

Damon: No! I want you to remember who you are!
Stefan: Why? So what, so I'll feed? So I kill? So I'll remember what it's like to be brothers again?

TVD 1x02, The Night of the Comet

It's not just about Stefan. It's not about Damon trying to push him in a direction he thinks fits best (well, ok, it is, but there is more to it). Stefan's bunny diet affects them both, because neither of them defines himself independently. Here Damon abuses Stefan, because Stefan's feeding is not only important for Stefan's identity, but also for Damon's.

Stefan: Because you feel something for her! Because you actually care. And I'm not gonna let Katherine come in here and destroy that part of you that is finally, after all this time, willing to feel something. She'll try to break you. She'll try to break us. And how we respond to that will define us. It's our choice. So no, I'm not gonna fight you.
TVD 2x01, The Return

It's all about self-definition... but we create this definition together.

Stefan: Thank you.
Damon: No, Stefan, thank you. You're back on Bambi blood, and I'm the big, badass brother again. All is right in the world.

TVD 1x20, Blood Brothers

The situation comes back to normal, and how does Damon express it? By re-establishing their traditional good/bad brother roles!

And now just look at this:

Stefan: I don't hurt people. I don't do that. I'm the good brother
TVD 1x19, Miss Mystic Falls

He is at his LOWEST. He is confused, hurting, struggling. Damon has NOTHING to do with what's going on. And still, Stefan defines himself as a brother.

It didn't have to be this way. They weren't born with twin brains or anything, it could have all gone in a completely different direction. If one of them got killed right now, the other would never be the same again. But had Damon been killed during the Civil War, Stefan would've gotten over it, eventually. It would've been one of his worst experiences, but he would't have been broken by it. The Salvatores weren't predestined to be tied so closely. They made themselves like this.

When Stefan forced Damon to turn, he didn't do it because they had a unique, undying bond or anything. He did it, because he was just a kid, he lost everything overnight, and it scared the shit out of him:

Stefan: What I did was selfish. I didn't want to be alone. I guess I just needed my brother.
TVD 2x08, Rose

And here is where it all starts. That's why I love the Salvatore boys so much - they don't try to claim that there always is a wonderful, unbreakable bond between siblings. They are like this, because they MADE themselves like this, simple like that. Their world fell apart. They were turned in 1864, and in 1865 the war ended, and the South was never the same after that. Unlike Caroline or Vicky, they couldn't show their faces in their town for years after they were turned; the society they knew was changing; it just happened that they were turned at the time that was a turning point for their entire country. So by the end of the 19th century the only familiar thing they had was, well, each other. And this is when a real roller-coaster started, because the 20th century must've been hell for everyone brought up in the relatively calm and ordered 19th century. The definitions of time and distance changed, a new social order emerged, unspeakable horrors happened, new technologies turned the world upside-down. Nothing is the way it was before. The Salvatore boys have spent the entire century just adjusting to changes. And they didn't have anything stable, or safe, or familiar; nothing but each other's company to find solace in. And I can prove that it was a process!

Damon: Help him. He needs it.
Lexi: I'll help him.

TVD 2x15, The Dinner Party

And what does Damon do 146 years later?

Damon: Screw this Lexi plan. I think we could both use a drink.
TVD 3x08, Ordinary People

The Salvatores made some choices, and those choices have bound them together for eternity. Now Damon doesn't get to walk away. It doesn't even cross his mind to walk away. He owes Stefan, and it's very important, but there is another thing that's even more important. He can't just leave him in a cell to rot! It's simple like that. He can't.

Of course their relationship is not about hugs and puppies although I think Ian would totally support the idea of Damon adopting a puppy. Now, my knowledge about siblings is purely theoretical, but I have childhood friends, and we aren't exactly tender with each other. We just know each other so well that it creates a bullshit-free zone. I can do whatever I want, because what are they gonna do? Think that I'm *insert insult here*? They've thought it hundreds times already, and they are still here, so what's a big deal?

And that's how I see the Salvatores. They are this HUGE bullshit-free zone. They don't bother with sugar-coating. So they can say things like this:

Stefan: Why didn't you tell me?
Damon: Cause I didn't want you to know! Cause I hated you, and I still do.
Stefan: I know.
Damon: But not because you forced me to turn.
Stefan: Then why?
Damon: Because she turned you. It was supposed to be me, Stefan. Just me.

TVD 1x20, Blood Brothers

This conversation sounds malicious, but in fact it isn't, because Stefan already knows all of this. Of course Stefan feels guilty, but Damon saying or not saying things out loud doesn't change a thing for him, because he knows it all anyway. He figured it out ages ago. Damon is just saying things, because he is a drama queen Damon, but no actual communication happens, because it's all old news for them.

There can be no bullshit:

Stefan: That's not true. Sure there is. Let's get it out. I mean, are you in this car because you want to help your little brother save a girl that he loves, or is it because you love her too? I mean, come on, express yourself! I happen to like road-trip bonding.
Damon: Keep it up, Stefan. I can step out of helping as easily as I stepped in.
Stefan: Nope. See, that's the beauty of it. You can't.

TVD 2x08, Rose

Damon: It is what it is, Elena. The Stefan you know was "Good Behavior" Stefan, "Reign It In" Stefan, "Fight Against His Nature To An Annoyingly Obsessive Level" Stefan, but if you think there's not another part to this, then you have not been paying attention.
TVD 1x18, Under Control

So they can yell at each other, they can punch each other, they can hurt each other, but they can't lie to each other and they can't abandon each other. They are a team, and they've been a team for so long that they don't even have to discuss strategy (see: 1x12, Stefan just says: Damon, he was invited in, AND THEY BOTH INSTANTLY KNOW WHAT TO DO). They define each other. Being brothers has grown so deeply into their identities that it shows everywhere. When Stefan gets shot in 1x06, the bullet can cause him no further harm, but Damon's first impulse is to take it out first, take his ring from Stefan later. When they fight in 3x08, it's Damon who lands the first blow, but then he just defends himself, because for a moment they are just boys fighting over something not important at all, and when they were boys, Damon was the bigger, older and stronger brother, so he had to keep himself in check not to hurt his little brother. Damon doesn't give a shit about Stefan becoming good again. When Elena tries to save Stefan, she thinks of it in terms of some metaphysical salvation. When Damon tries to save Stefan, he thinks of it in terms of helping his brother to be happy, to stop struggling with himself; he wants to make Stefan's life easier, and he is not even sorry if your tone implies that he should care about collateral damage. Both Elena and Damon want Stefan to get better, but Elena defines it as to be better, and Damon as to feel better. And this is why it will be Damon who saves Stefan: because he just wants to save Stefan, and he brings no adittional meaning into it. He doesn't want to save any ideas (like: romantic love, abstract goodness etc); he wants to save the only thing that holds his identity together. It's selfish, of course, but, paradoxically, it makes their relationship healthier than most of the relationships in this show, because all the key things already happened, the Salvatores ARE already bound together, and they have no more expectations. Damon doesn't need Stefan to become anything for him; whoever Stefan becomes is fine for Damon, because at this point he simply cannot become anything but a brother.

Of course Elena is important for both of them, but that's a totally different story. Elena could never just replace one brother with another, it's not about who gets to be her boyfriend. It could've played out like this with Katherine, but that's not how Damon and Stefan work any more. It's not because they are so moral and wouldn't go after a brother's girl, because it's wrong. Love is important for them, it's powerful and it changes their lives, but lovers is not who they primary are. First of all, they are brothers.

To sum up:

all over

Date: 2011-11-05 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akzseinga.livejournal.com
Damon doesn't need Stefan to become anything for him; whoever Stefan becomes is fine for Damon, because at this point he simply cannot become anything but a brother.

!!!

Everyone is expecting from Stefan to be someone, someone different, and all his life he is trying to live up to it. I think it started with his father, who wanted his younger son to be the good catholic boy he wouldn't be ashamed of (totally head!canon? I'm not sure). Most recently we saw it happening with Elena and Klaus. They both made it very clear, what they want from him or, rather, for him to be.

Damon made this mistake, too. Multiple times. But you are right that he finally got it. Stefan is his brother, he doesn;t have to be anything else. And I think that this particular knowledge, that someone is accepting him and loving him unconditionally, will "save" Stefan in the end.

Oh, please show, let it be so.

Date: 2011-11-05 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
I think it started with his father, who wanted his younger son to be the good catholic boy he wouldn't be ashamed of (totally head!canon? I'm not sure).

Totally head!canon, but I like your head!canon better than I like canon!

Damon made this mistake, too. Multiple times. But you are right that he finally got it. Stefan is his brother, he doesn;t have to be anything else.

Good point. I think Damon might actually have a case of "Nobody But Me Can Hit My Brother": as long as he was abusing Stefan, he didn't care, but when he saw what Klaus did, and he saw the consequences...

Date: 2011-11-05 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
VERY RUDE TO VOMIT ALL OVER THE RUG DAMON JUST CLEANED.

I'm still kind of torn on this but I LOVE all the meta and discussion that has come out of the last few days so <33.

And this is why it will be Damon who saves Stefan: because he just wants to save Stefan, and he brings no adittional meaning into it. He doesn't want to save any ideas (like: romantic love, abstract goodness etc); he wants to save the only thing that holds his identity together.

I like this. One of the interesting explorations this season has been who the "real" Stefan is - Elena thinks in terms of Real Stefan vs. Switched!Stefan (not who he really is) so she does have a certain expectation of who Stefan needs to be. Damon, in contrast, fully accepted ripper!Stefan as the "real" Stefan since the beginning. He doesn't need Stefan to stop killing people or be the "good" brother so much as he wants Stefan to be free of Klaus/not to give up, etc. Actually, Damon would probably be delighted if Stefan learned how to control the bloodlust and they could go out feeding and drinking together all the time lol. HE WOULD PROBABLY EVEN ENJOY THE BROTHERLY FIST-FIGHTS.

ON THE OTHER HAND THOUGH, I could definitely go for fewer girls being compelled as blood buffets as part of Damon's plan to save Stefan's soul. :|

Date: 2011-11-05 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
VERY RUDE TO VOMIT ALL OVER THE RUG DAMON JUST CLEANED.

Oh, no problem, now Damon and I can clean them again together :P.

ON THE OTHER HAND THOUGH, I could definitely go for fewer girls being compelled as blood buffets as part of Damon's plan to save Stefan's soul. :|

So true, unluckily :(. I mean, they are vampires, I get that they have to eat people, but I'd really aprreciate it if they were eating, you know, EVERYBODY, not just the pretty girls. Fail, show.

Actually, Damon would probably be delighted if Stefan learned how to control the bloodlust and they could go out feeding and drinking together all the time lol. HE WOULD PROBABLY EVEN ENJOY THE BROTHERLY FIST-FIGHTS.

Well, of course he would! Damon might have FEELINGS and existential crisis, and everything, but he's still a hedonist ;).

Date: 2011-11-06 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
SDLFKJDSKLFJDS;FLJDSF;SD

Screw You, Epic Romance -- Haha, but the Salvatores ARE the Epic Romance? XDDDD

When it comes to self-identification, Stefan and Damon Salvatore define themselves primary as brothers. -- YES. GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS.

I just. Everything you say about that is amazing and true and I want to hug your words.

When Stefan forced Damon to turn, he didn't do it because they had a unique, undying bond or anything. He did it, because he was just a kid, he lost everything overnight, and it scared the shit out of him -- Huh. Interesting. I kinda think they DID have a really special bond as humans. After their mother died, all they had pretty much was each other ('cause their dad was rubbish at supporting either of them). But IA that their bond wouldn't be as HUGE as it is if not for Stefan forcing Damon.

That's why I love the Salvatore boys so much - they don't try to claim that there always is a wonderful, unbreakable bond between siblings. -- Great point. Clearly they are the most important people to each other, period. But they never put their love on a pedestal. It's never LOOK AT OUR EPIC ROMANCE, lol.

although I think Ian would totally support the idea of Damon adopting a puppy -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA A++++++. Fic NEEDS to be written.

And that's how I see the Salvatores. They are this HUGE bullshit-free zone. They don't bother with sugar-coating. -- AMEN. And that's why I love them so hard.

Damon doesn't give a shit about Stefan becoming good again… Damon doesn't need Stefan to become anything for him; whoever Stefan becomes is fine for Damon, because at this point he simply cannot become anything but a brother.
-- YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH. I CANNOT. I got a bit misty-eyed there, nil. I just. TRUTH. SO MUCH TRUTH. (Though, I think Elena is definitely STARTING to let go of her idealism, as we have discussed.) What the brothers have--it goes beyond hope, beyond happiness, beyond redemption. If that's not unconditional love, I don't know what is.

It's not because they are so moral and wouldn't go after a brother's girl, because it's wrong. Love is important for them, it's powerful and it changes their lives, but lovers is not who they primary are. First of all, they are brothers. -- AMEN. Above all, they are loyal to each other.

TL;DR

random

by leaveatrail

Date: 2011-11-06 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
THIS GIF! My precious boys are so precious! *starry eyes*

I kinda think they DID have a really special bond as humans. After their mother died, all they had pretty much was each other ('cause their dad was rubbish at supporting either of them). But IA that their bond wouldn't be as HUGE as it is if not for Stefan forcing Damon.

This is what I meant. Of course they were close (Stefan says that they were the best of friends), otherwise Stefan wouldn't be so desperate to turn his brother. But it's a completely different level now.

Fic NEEDS to be written.

We need to prompt it in the upcoming comment ficathon :D.

What the brothers have--it goes beyond hope, beyond happiness, beyond redemption. If that's not unconditional love, I don't know what is.

You are a wise person! *nods*

God, I need to stop staring at this gif...

Date: 2011-11-12 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
although I think Ian would totally support the idea of Damon adopting a puppy -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA A++++++. Fic NEEDS to be written.

LOOOOOOL, I prompted it, and someone has actually WRITTEN THE FIC! I love this fandom!

Date: 2011-11-12 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN

WHERE IS IT?

Date: 2011-11-12 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
HERE (http://softly-me.livejournal.com/188407.html?thread=3919351#t3919351)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: 2011-11-12 11:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
MOST AMAZING THING I'VE READ IN MY LIFE.

That person is a bro. She wrote one of my favourite OT3 fics in this fandom too.

Date: 2011-11-12 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
She is a horrible person. Now I'll never get out of my troll mode! I'll be a troll forever!

'The puppy is difficult, Damon is difficult, both like to chew on things they shouldn't be.

*crying* *is twelve*

Date: 2011-11-07 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuel-for-flight.livejournal.com
This is awesomeness. I give you pie.

And this is why it will be Damon who saves Stefan: because he just wants to save Stefan, and he brings no additional meaning into it. He doesn't want to save any ideas (like: romantic love, abstract goodness etc); he wants to save the only thing that holds his identity together.

THIS. It’s interesting, though, and definitely worth noting, that Damon thinks that Stefan being happy does involve a degree of “goodness.” Or self-control, anyway. Damon doesn’t need to redeem his brother, maybe, but he understands that unless Stefan learns self-control and balance and self-acceptance, Damon isn’t going to have the brother he needs. For whatever reason, Damon’s identity doesn’t simply depend on Stefan-continued existence, but also on Stefan’s well-being. Otherwise, what would be the point of “saving” him? All he’d have to do is make sure his brother doesn’t die.
He wants to make Stefan's life easier, and he is not even sorry if your tone implies that he should care about collateral damage.

HA. Love it.

It’s weird, but the collateral damage doesn’t bother me all that much. I mean, it does, but these are vampires---collateral damage is kind of a thing with vampires. I’ve made my peace with the fact that these are basically bad people. I’m okay with it. I like them anyway. And I wonder---if it bothers people so much, why do they watch a show about mythical creatures that need to murder to survive?

Just a thought.

But anyway, love the spontaneous Salvatore meta. Rainbow-vomit carpets are going to become a thing if the show keeps this up. Damon can start a cleaning service.

Date: 2011-11-07 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
Pie accepted gladly! And welcome, I think I haven't seen you here before :).

Good point about Damon needing Stefan not just alive, but also in good shape. He can't just let him rot in the cell, can he?

It’s weird, but the collateral damage doesn’t bother me all that much. I mean, it does, but these are vampires---collateral damage is kind of a thing with vampires. I’ve made my peace with the fact that these are basically bad people. I’m okay with it. I like them anyway. And I wonder---if it bothers people so much, why do they watch a show about mythical creatures that need to murder to survive?

It does bother me that they vampires just "accidentally" keep killing mostly pretty, young girls, but other than that? TVD is not a show about heroes, the characters are just people who happened to get involved into something bigger than themselves, and now they try to cope. They are so selfish, they protect their own, and they never see the bigger picture. This is what I love about this show. Because, honestly? If my (hypothetical) brother was about to die and I could save him by joining a mass murderer, I would do it without blinking, especially if I already had a history of being mass murderer. Collateral damage be damned.

Date: 2011-11-07 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuel-for-flight.livejournal.com
And welcome, I think I haven't seen you here before :).

Yay! I was just creeping through some flists and I saw this posy and was all like OMG MUST COMMENT.

It does bother me that they vampires just "accidentally" keep killing mostly pretty, young girls.

Yeah, that it is pretty bothersome. But I guess vampires prefer to feed on people they find attractive? Though, you know, me, I’d probably prefer to feed on the people I DISLIKE, but oh well.

TVD is not a show about heroes, the characters are just people who happened to get involved into something bigger than themselves, and now they try to cope.

YES. AGREED. Of course Damon is horrible. Of course all vampires are horrible on some level. How could they not be? They’re vampires. They need to eat people, and it does no good to be nice to the cow before you eat the burger, I guess.

And it of course sucks, and they probably had no idea just how much vampirism would suck before they signed up for it, but what can they do now? It is what it is.

My poor poor Salvatores. I will pet you.

If my (hypothetical) brother was about to die and I could save him by joining a mass murderer, I would do it without blinking, especially if I already had a history of being mass murderer. Collateral damage be damned.

Indeed. Same here, not gonna lie. And again, the lengths these two will go to to preserve the other’s life/well-being/etc. They’d probably even share Elena, really. I mean, after mass murder, it doesn’t even rank. Polyamorous arrangement? Make it happen, show.

Date: 2011-11-07 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
I was just creeping through some flists and I saw this posy and was all like OMG MUST COMMENT.

I'm glad you did :).

And it of course sucks, and they probably had no idea just how much vampirism would suck before they signed up for it, but what can they do now?

I think Damon had quite a fair idea, and he wanted to do it anyway ;). Well, he is not the smartest person in the world.

They’d probably even share Elena, really. I mean, after mass murder, it doesn’t even rank. Polyamorous arrangement? Make it happen, show.

I don't think a polyamorous arrangement here should be considered in terms of good and evil. I guess it's more of what they would feel comfortable with. There are so many issues here (first of all, Elena and Stefan from the very beginning were shaping their relationship as an epic romance, and in order to get into a threesome, they'd have to re-evaluate their entire relationship), and I'd love to see those issues play out on screen. Right now we have some very interesting dynamics, and I'm enjoying it very much :D.

Date: 2011-11-07 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuel-for-flight.livejournal.com
I don't think a polyamorous arrangement here should be considered in terms of good and evil. I guess it's more of what they would feel comfortable with.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that polyamory is bad. Sure, it makes some people feel squicky, but I’m not one of them. It’s not for me, I guess, but I can see how it would work for some people? Like these three characters in particular. And I can see them going for it, too---granted, after a lot of shouting and crying and gnashing of teeth, but I do think they could warm to the idea. It just seems the only logical thing to do?

But I keep getting the feeling that the showrunners might not go for it. I guess it just doesn’t really GO with most people’s idea of “epic romance.” I can see them getting real squicked by the whole thing. But again, showrunners: your characters are murderers and you’re grossed out by an unorthodox relationship arrangement?

Elena and Stefan from the very beginning were shaping their relationship as an epic romance, and in order to get into a threesome, they'd have to re-evaluate their entire relationship....Right now we have some very interesting dynamics.

Well, the recent developments have definitely been game changers, don’t you think? I can only hope the JP and KW reevaluate their ideas regarding ideal romantic relationships. There’s room in there for three!

Date: 2011-11-08 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
Definitely game changers, oh yes. But I'm not really sure if I want to have treesome on the show. There are just too many possibilities for me to choose one now. I wouldn't protest if they started writing the show like that, but I'm still not sure if this is my dream solution. It's purely the matter of too many openings to choose from; how do I ever pick just one? I should have, like, four separate shows: in one there is a threesome, in one they all just live in Mystic Falls as friends and do loads of awesome team stuff, in one Elena is broken and she starts to both sleep with Damon and abuse him psychologically, and one in which Elena goes to college and gets the hell out of this whole MF mess ;).

Profile

semele: (Default)
semele

December 2015

S M T W T F S
  1 2345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Oct. 20th, 2017 12:10 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios