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Elena Gilbert: Women Love Fest (Bonus Post 2)
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idrilka. At least this time it was fun for her, because I'm braindead and I made some typos that are gonna be remembered for the next ten years.
Again, I wasn't supposed to be writing about Elena. I was supposed to focus on Donna Noble (Doctor Who) and do it in Polish, but than I started reading all those TVD meta posts and discussions on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
womenlovefest and they are so inspiring I can't stop writing about TVD characters. Seriously, this started out as celebrating female characters, but right now it's a huge brainstorm that gives me loads of meta ideas and five plotbunnies per hour. Since there is a ficathon coming on multifandom_pl, I really owe you guys.
I am a faithful Elena/Damon shipper, although my ideas as to how this ship could look like started to change as the series went on. I also enjoy my threesome and I have some secondary pairings I support, but when it comes to romantic relationships in TVD, Elena/Damon is my main point of focus (partly because there is a girl on my flist who writes such amazing Stefan I don't even have the courage to start). Only during the fest-related discussions did I realize that this ship is actually my way of interpreting Elena, so it might be interesting to write a meta instead of yet another fic.
Because I'm an Elena/Damon shipper for all the wrong reasons.
Made byjuana_a (who was happy to have an excuse to look at pretty Damon pictures). Quote from "Little Lion Man" by Mumford And Sons.
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it
Elena obviously has a soft spot for Damon and it's easier for her to forgive him than to forgive an average person. It's not as absurd as it sounds. First of all, Elena is a forgiving person, she doesn't hold grudges. Secondly, let's pay attention to what we know as viewers and what Elena knows as a character. She has no idea about half of the wrong things Damon does: she probably doesn't know that he abuses Andy (the only person with the full understanding of Andy's situation is Stefan; Alaric might have some idea, but the rest of them?) or how far did he go with Caroline; she certainly has no idea about his killing spree in late season two. So, basically, Elena isn't delusional and she knows that he is not just a big, fluffy puppy with bad teeth, but I doubt she realizes just how evil he can be, because how could she? She believes in people, she believes that people change, she believes in second chances. And that's why I find Elena/Damon so fascinating.
It wouldn't be a healthy relationship, not a good or a happy one. Elena knows it and still she is tempted. I get it, really. You can decide who you want to be with, but you can't help attraction, it's illogical and sometimes wrong (how many times have you liked someone or something you knew you shouldn't have?). Physical attraction, Elena can handle. What she has with Damon is more complicated, though. Elena thinks she can influence him, and she believes that he can be redeemed (he has to be, because if Damon is evil to the core, then vampires are evil to the core, all of them, including Stefan and Caroline), so, logically, she tries to help him, because that's the thing she does. She is an essentially good person who just gets evil in theory.
Our cultures romanticizes evil characters. They are all cool and wear leather jackets, they are charming bad boys who will rip your heart out, but first they look at you with puppy eyes and have a nice chat with your mother (who hates their guts). We love them just a little bit - Spike and Eric Northoman, and Damon Salvatore; I know I do, and so does Elena, to some extent. Damon would not hurt her on purpose, he wouldn't play her the way he played Caroline or Andy, because Elena is a girl he would've loved when he was human; she is a projection of an old dream of his. He would hurt her badly nonetheless, because he doesn't know right form wrong or he just wants to do something for her own good (see: feeding her his blood). I want to see something like this on TV; I want to see a relationship go awry not because one party is a sadistic bastard who hurts his/her significant other for fun, but because they mean well and do it wrong; and I want to see that it is no excuse. I want to see that a bad boy thing often ends bad. I want to see that someone like Damon cannot be redeemed because of love of a woman; I want to see that people can change, but no one has ever been reformed by somebody else's romantic love.
Elena is perfect for this kind of story, because she is written in a very realistic way and her attraction to Damon is unquestionable. You can't simply ignore her story, you can't tell yourself that she is stupid or vain or childish and you'd know better. She is the kind of character you want to identify with, so yes, I want her to yield to a temptation and go for Damon, I want her to get burned and, finally, I want her to call Damon out on it. It would be a mistake to allow herself fall in love with Damon, but it's a mistake she is likely to make.
Elena doesn't fully understand how wretched Damon is; it's Bonnie who recognizes him as he is and, hence, is ultimately disgusted by the very sight of him. Elena, however, will never do that; not because she is not bright enough to notice, but because she is kind and compassionate and she just doesn't give up on people. It is a rare trait, and a wonderful one, but it's very painful to have. Elena will sooner or later pay the price for her capability to, while having a good moral compass, not condemn a person. If you want a character in the show to be someone like this, you need to depict the whole baggage. I wouldn't buy it if Elena didn't at some point get hurt for all the goodness she has in her. So I want TVD to be true about Elena. It's a tough lesson, but in real life good guys get hurt for no good reason, while villains get away with things. There is no reward for being a decent person; you need to be moral because it's right, not because in the end karma will give you a lollipop. Girls like Elena sometimes have a bad boy thing and they don't always resist it, because they are not fortune tellers and they can't always tell that this relationship is doomed from the beginning. People like Elena do get punished for their good deeds.
Not that it stops them.
idrilka. At least this time it was fun for her, because I'm braindead and I made some typos that are gonna be remembered for the next ten years.Again, I wasn't supposed to be writing about Elena. I was supposed to focus on Donna Noble (Doctor Who) and do it in Polish, but than I started reading all those TVD meta posts and discussions on
womenlovefest and they are so inspiring I can't stop writing about TVD characters. Seriously, this started out as celebrating female characters, but right now it's a huge brainstorm that gives me loads of meta ideas and five plotbunnies per hour. Since there is a ficathon coming on multifandom_pl, I really owe you guys.I am a faithful Elena/Damon shipper, although my ideas as to how this ship could look like started to change as the series went on. I also enjoy my threesome and I have some secondary pairings I support, but when it comes to romantic relationships in TVD, Elena/Damon is my main point of focus (
Because I'm an Elena/Damon shipper for all the wrong reasons.
Made by
juana_a (The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it
Elena obviously has a soft spot for Damon and it's easier for her to forgive him than to forgive an average person. It's not as absurd as it sounds. First of all, Elena is a forgiving person, she doesn't hold grudges. Secondly, let's pay attention to what we know as viewers and what Elena knows as a character. She has no idea about half of the wrong things Damon does: she probably doesn't know that he abuses Andy (the only person with the full understanding of Andy's situation is Stefan; Alaric might have some idea, but the rest of them?) or how far did he go with Caroline; she certainly has no idea about his killing spree in late season two. So, basically, Elena isn't delusional and she knows that he is not just a big, fluffy puppy with bad teeth, but I doubt she realizes just how evil he can be, because how could she? She believes in people, she believes that people change, she believes in second chances. And that's why I find Elena/Damon so fascinating.
It wouldn't be a healthy relationship, not a good or a happy one. Elena knows it and still she is tempted. I get it, really. You can decide who you want to be with, but you can't help attraction, it's illogical and sometimes wrong (how many times have you liked someone or something you knew you shouldn't have?). Physical attraction, Elena can handle. What she has with Damon is more complicated, though. Elena thinks she can influence him, and she believes that he can be redeemed (he has to be, because if Damon is evil to the core, then vampires are evil to the core, all of them, including Stefan and Caroline), so, logically, she tries to help him, because that's the thing she does. She is an essentially good person who just gets evil in theory.
Our cultures romanticizes evil characters. They are all cool and wear leather jackets, they are charming bad boys who will rip your heart out, but first they look at you with puppy eyes and have a nice chat with your mother (who hates their guts). We love them just a little bit - Spike and Eric Northoman, and Damon Salvatore; I know I do, and so does Elena, to some extent. Damon would not hurt her on purpose, he wouldn't play her the way he played Caroline or Andy, because Elena is a girl he would've loved when he was human; she is a projection of an old dream of his. He would hurt her badly nonetheless, because he doesn't know right form wrong or he just wants to do something for her own good (see: feeding her his blood). I want to see something like this on TV; I want to see a relationship go awry not because one party is a sadistic bastard who hurts his/her significant other for fun, but because they mean well and do it wrong; and I want to see that it is no excuse. I want to see that a bad boy thing often ends bad. I want to see that someone like Damon cannot be redeemed because of love of a woman; I want to see that people can change, but no one has ever been reformed by somebody else's romantic love.
Elena is perfect for this kind of story, because she is written in a very realistic way and her attraction to Damon is unquestionable. You can't simply ignore her story, you can't tell yourself that she is stupid or vain or childish and you'd know better. She is the kind of character you want to identify with, so yes, I want her to yield to a temptation and go for Damon, I want her to get burned and, finally, I want her to call Damon out on it. It would be a mistake to allow herself fall in love with Damon, but it's a mistake she is likely to make.
Elena doesn't fully understand how wretched Damon is; it's Bonnie who recognizes him as he is and, hence, is ultimately disgusted by the very sight of him. Elena, however, will never do that; not because she is not bright enough to notice, but because she is kind and compassionate and she just doesn't give up on people. It is a rare trait, and a wonderful one, but it's very painful to have. Elena will sooner or later pay the price for her capability to, while having a good moral compass, not condemn a person. If you want a character in the show to be someone like this, you need to depict the whole baggage. I wouldn't buy it if Elena didn't at some point get hurt for all the goodness she has in her. So I want TVD to be true about Elena. It's a tough lesson, but in real life good guys get hurt for no good reason, while villains get away with things. There is no reward for being a decent person; you need to be moral because it's right, not because in the end karma will give you a lollipop. Girls like Elena sometimes have a bad boy thing and they don't always resist it, because they are not fortune tellers and they can't always tell that this relationship is doomed from the beginning. People like Elena do get punished for their good deeds.
Not that it stops them.
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I don't know the books but having watched the show critically, I still think Damon/Bonnie is inevitable or book canon or both XD
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(partly because there is a girl on my flist who writes such amazing Stefan I don't even have the courage to start)
KTO? KTO? DAJ MI LINKI DO JEJ FIKÓW. CHCĘĘĘĘ.
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loooooooooooooool. no, to było niespodziewane. Dzięki! :*
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And I agree 100% with third paragraph - sure, bad boys are so much fun, but it's never stressed enough that relationships with them tend to end badly.
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I'd totally be behind the threesome too though. Now how that would play out with current canon is something to think about..no subject
To be honest, that's what attracted me to TVD in the first place - they explored the bad boy thing and started showing that it ends badly (Caroline!). I so hope they will catch that lead, now that they have such a wonderful opening for it.
I'm glad you liked the meta. I was seriously considering not posting it, because, basially, it's about how I want Elena to suffer; not really Love Fest thing. But I had to get it out of my system, I had a serious case of bad fic poisoning ;).
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Wielokrotnie.
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OMG. YOU TOO? Damn, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I feel pretty at odds with most of fandom because I don't really ship them because Damon wants her, or because she's awesome through Damon's eyes--but because Elena's interactions with Damon are what made me really understand her. (See: that hug in Fool Me Once.)
I want to see something like this on TV; I want to see a relationship go awry not because one party is a sadistic bastard who hurts his/her significant other for fun, but because they mean well and do it wrong; and I want to see that it is no excuse. I want to see that a bad boy thing often ends bad. I want to see that someone like Damon cannot be redeemed because of love of a woman; I want to see that people can change, but no one has ever been reformed by somebody else's romantic love.
YES. YES. YES. THANK YOU. This is why I loved Damon and Elena's story in S2 so much--because Damon is the undead embodiment of doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and the narrative completely tears chunks out of that Byronic Hero ideal. And because you have instances like in The Descent where Elena's love/comforting words actually upset Damon so much that he goes out and kills someone. That's DARK. That's what I want to see. And I'm absolutely with you that "the monster cannot be saved by the love of a good woman" is the story that the show is telling (but this seems to be an unpopular opinion; most of fandom, from what I've seen, really think that Damon is changing for Elena, and I just don't agree at all).
And, you know, everything you're saying about how bad Damon is for Elena and how destructive a relationship between them would be is exactly why I don't want them to get together. I'd really rather they remain good friends, honestly. Or, if they do happen, I want Elena to have the emotional power the entire time, 'cause Damon-as-submissive (to the women he actually loves) is one of the most interesting things about him for me. (Also, the last thing I want is for Elena to get with Damon, then realise ~how awful~ he is and that Stefan is her True Love after all.) I think Elena has been getting darker and darker, morally, but subtly so (e.g. caring more about Caroline than the man she killed), and I think the day that she decides to go there with Damon will be her darkest day yet.
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because Elena's interactions with Damon are what made me really understand her
I just realized that I don't describe Damon in those fics; I focus either on general dynamics, or on how does this relationship influence Elena. That might be because Damon is rather obvious and predictable in this contex, while with Elena you have to start with Why the hell would she even start this freak show? and go straight into How does it damage her?. And Damon in a relationship with Elena is just a romantic figure; appealing like hell, but not really interesting to explore (when I want to explore Damon, I go into gen or Damon/Alaric; I like to have historian's perspective on him).
And I'm absolutely with you that "the monster cannot be saved by the love of a good woman" is the story that the show is telling (but this seems to be an unpopular opinion; most of fandom, from what I've seen, really think that Damon is changing for Elena, and I just don't agree at all).
Oh, because it's all so romantic, isn't it? It's Beauty and the Beast over and over and over again; we've been fed it since we were four and now it's so hard to snap out of it. We just want it to happen, because if a woman can love a monster so much that he turns into a man, then we can all do it. Someone will love us so much he'll turn his entire life upside down for us. We don't want to believe that a guy who mistreats his family or co-workers probably will mistreat his girlfriend at some point. Our culture is full of this image; love conquers all and love changes everything. Well, it doesn't. As much as I'd love to believe that one day I'll meet a guy who will be willing to rip his world apart for me and form himself to my liking, this is not going to happen. Never ever. And I so wish our culture caught up with this simple truth.
Or, if they do happen, I want Elena to have the emotional power the entire time, 'cause Damon-as-submissive (to the women he actually loves) is one of the most interesting things about him for me.
I never thought about that! And it's BRILLIANT! That's exactly how he was with Katherine, so there is something like this in him! You are a genius, did you know that? Could you please elaborate?
Also, the last thing I want is for Elena to get with Damon, then realise ~how awful~ he is and that Stefan is her True Love after all.
Nah, I think there is not returning to Stefan after being with Damon; not right away at least. If it happens as I see it, Elena will have some broken bones to mend, figuratively speaking. She might want to stay away from all the guys for a while.
As for getting darker - I can't help but compare this to Buffy. And I loved it so much when they explored Buffy's dark side... I don't think it will actually get so dark with Elena, but I can't get rid of Buffy image in my head when I'm thinking about s3.
ramble ramble
Haha, I totally thought this was a common idea! Damon is pretty much the Bella Swan of the TVD universe--he was entirely willing to give up his life and humanity, and leave his family behind, for his abusive vampire girlfriend. Then he spends the next 145 years romanticising that abuse. It's really fascinating gender subversion.
Anyway, with Elena--one of the most interesting things about their relationship to me, especially in S2, is how Elena subtly develops a habit of manipulating Damon, to get him to do what she wants, by using her emotional power over him. (Damon calls her out on this in 2x13.) And on Damon's side, what's great is that he shows absolutely no desire to actually take that power back. Sure, he complains about it a lot behind her back, but it doesn't make her love her less? That sort of parallels his feelings for Katherine, in that he was totally aware of how selfish and cruel she was, but couldn't help loving her anyway. (Damon is a nasty piece of work, generally, but it can't be denied that he's profoundly loyal, lol.)
Another element of Damon/Elena I'm fascinated by is how Damon is pretty much the only one in Elena's life she really lets herself be angry with. Because, Elena does have pent-up anger, from all the terrible things that have happened to her, but she usually copes by directing that anger towards herself ("everything is because of me"). She can't be angry with her friends/family because she needs to protect them. And she can't be angry with Stefan because he's basically been the one good thing to happen to her since her parents died. But with Damon, however, she doesn't have any restraint. (One of my favourite moments is her telling him "this is your fault" after Vicki dies, because how often do we see Elena directing anger outside of herself?) Damon is the perfect person for that, because he's a masochist, and to him, Elena hating him means she cares. (See: "~I'll even let her hate me for it.~") There's also an implicit level of trust, because Elena knows that no matter how much she hates him, he's never going to leave her.
So, uh, yeah, I ship D/E because it's the only one of Elena's relationships that allows her to be angry? *g* And I'm with totally you about the Buffy similarities. I'd love for Elena to get really dark like Buffy did in the later seasons, and I actually think there's a decent chance of that happening, but I'll cautiously reserve judgment for now...
Re: ramble ramble
You know, I've been reading and writing some TVD fanfiction, but until now I haven't been so much into metas or discussions, so it's safe to asume that there are hundreds of common ideas I've never heard about ;). So thank you for explaining.
Hmmm. I'm actually convinced. I never wanted to take Buffy comparison that far, because I didn't see Elena abusing Damon the way Buffy was abusing Spike for most of s6 (I might be forgetting about something, but I think Seeing Red was the first time she was his victim, not the other way round), but this makes sense. I was so focused on Damon trying to make Elena obey him when it came to dealing with Klaus ("Who is gonna save your life when you're out there making decisions?") that I missed her attempts to manipulate him into being a better man. Oh my God, this could lead to such a beautiful tragedy! *excited*
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I'm glad I got you thinking. When someone gets you thinking about a fictional character, the results often make an interesting reading ;).
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